Cross Breeds

When is it okay to hit a horse during training?

Went to a training session at a girls horse camp where they were teaching young girls to work on grd manners w/ young horses 2.5-4 yrs. I went with my 2.5yr old mare. Another 3.5yr old mare was a serious pill. i.e. first rubbing head on handler and not respecting space then when trainer got a hold of the horse, the horse became more pushy and agitated then she began to rear and strike. Each bout of misbehavior followed w/physical punishment starting with a yank on the lead to slap to crop slap a couple of times. I raised the question to the trainer if physical punishment was absolutely neccessary. She said yes. It all about "domination." Also, added that you often need to catch the horses leg and let them flip themselves over when they rear and strike. I am raising this question to others because i have not had to hit my horse. I openly admit I am toooo emotional about my horse. So far my mare is extremely responsive and I have really enjoyed hanging around with her.

Public Comments

1. i think it's cruel to hit a horse because it's misbehaving it might be scared or nervous or even too excited. hitting it will probably make it rear and kick even more. flipping a horse can seriously hurt a horse and some horses have trouble getting back up
2. i dont think it is ever ok to hit an animal ;/ better to patience with it and it will learn and end up being a better companion because it will like and trust people and not be afraid.. hitting is just a lazy way to get things done faster but in the end its not the best choice because of the bad it does
3. Old school horse folk tend to believe that physical discipline is a necessity. The responsible ones, however, would never flip a horse over. You do the math on that one. The new age approach to horse training typically involves more psycology and repetition. This method requires more patience and time. No matter what your philosohpy is though, you should treat and train horses the same way you would treat a human child. Whatever form of discipline works well is what you should use. Physical punishment is almost never a healthy or productive training tool. Besides, it's not very smart to get a 1,000 pound animal pissed off at you.
4. Many people believe that physical discipline is the only way to get a horse to listen to you - I know for a fact that this is not the case. There are many, many non-violent horse training techniques, and they have all worked for me. I don't believe in hitting animals, no matter how "effective" it may seem.
5. It really is impossible for a human to injure a horse by hitting it with their hand alone. You should never hit a horse on its face (unless it is agressivly biteing you, or trying to attack you, if it is in self defense I believe it is ok to hit a horse whereever you can if it will protect you). But giving a horse a smack on the shoulder or a tug on its lead rope if it is doing something wrong is acceptable. Im not advocating beating the crap out of your horse if it puts a foot wrong, but if you are leading it and it trys to jump on you or run you over, then yes, it is ok to give it a smack and tell it no. Horse are huge animals, they are livestock. A lot of people try and treat horses like they are giant dogs, but reality is their minds work completly differently. You should never hit a dog because you can injure it, it will turn agressive, etc. Smacking a horse on the shoulder won't create agression (unless you do it at inapropriate times, or excessivly), it is actually pretty much how other horses communicate with eachother. If my horse gets in my space or runs me over, i will smack it. If my horse were to get in another horse's space, or run into another horse, that horse would kick it...same thing. Positive reinforcement is very important too, but it is impossible to train a horse only useing positive reinforcement. It isn't all about domination, but it is about establishing your self as the leader. Horses are herd animals, there is always one horse at the top of the herd, you want your horse to see you as the alpha horse. That doesnt mean be mean to your horse, it just means you have to be a leader. As soon as you let your horse get away with running you over or something else you are letting your horse know he is above you in the pecking order. About the flipping the horse over comment, that isn't right. First off if a horse is rearing and strikeing at you, you should get away from it, not get close enough so that it can hurt you, if you flip it over you are getting close enough that you are likely to get hurt. You should wait for the horse to come down from rearing, then instantly discipline it, strongly. Things like rearing and strikeing are very dangrous, and absolutly have to be physically punished, but not by flipping it over. Flipping a horse will only scare it, possibly injure it, and teach it to panic as it is in the air creating a dangrous situation.
6. I would seriously questions this "trainers" methods and do a background check on her, your gut is trying to tell you something liten to it
7. Honestly, I believe that there is a time and place for that kind of punishment. I don't mean beat the horse for every mistake; but it is necessary for me when a horse gets flat out dangerous. I have known horses who for no apparent reason are just plain MEAN. I will hit a horse only if it comes at me with intent to hurt. I do not tolerate biting, kicking, or other rudeness of that sort that endangers me. Mostly, a solid slap will work. And I follow the three second rule. You have three seconds to punish or reward a horse for behavior. Now if the horse is clearly nervous or terrified, I won't lay a hand on it. I have a 4 year old gelding that I've had for over a year now. I have used this method only when he gets rude, and have found it works for him. He is quite a sensitive one, and the occasional slap across the butt does him no harm. I think it's more of the noise and shock than the actual pain you do to a horse when you smack it. Your hand won't do much to hurt that thousand pound animal. When my four year old reared he did get punished because it is inexcusable and unacceptable behavior. I firmly pulled on my lead maybe once or twice and told him "NO". He has only ever reared that one time, so it looks as if it was enough to get him to keep his feet on the ground and understand that it's not acceptable behavior. I'm sure that your approach to training your mare will work also. But just because someone uses physical punishment, it doesn't mean they are cruel and beat their horse. It is effective, when used in careful moderation.
8. to say that a person could catch a 1200 pound animals front leg in the air, when they are striking at you and flip them over is probably about the stupidist thing i've ever heard in all the years i've been around horses. sometimes you have to use some physical force against your horse, but only in isolated instances and never in anger or to be cruel. chances are a person normally can't really hurt a horse by hitting it, they are too big and strong. let's face it, when horses around other horses they are always kicking and biting each other, and much harder than a human ever could. however, your hitting them inappropriately can really hurt their training and your relationship with them STAY AWAY from this idiot trainer. find a real professional, i'd recommend Kevin Wescott, you can find him at www.liverystable.net